[Rico]

G'day,
I plan to make a mod for EA's C&C3 to try and make it into what WW had planned for C&C3.
I was wondering if any ex-westwood employee's could shed some light on the matter.
Examples of things that would be useful:
Unit list (perfect if avaliable)
Concept art (I know that there was a website that showed the CA of C&C3 but ive lost it , if anyone could post the link i would be greatful)
Anything of use.

I know that EA has all of the documents etc, and that what u say isnt 'official' info etc, but since i want to try and make what you guys planned, its logical to ask you about it lol.
Thanks for any help i get.

PS. Feel free to PM me or post here.

[Mighty BOB!]

We at http://cnc-source.com/ probably have the most extensive C&C image gallery in the entire community, especially when it comes to Tiberian Twilight / Incursion / Continuum concept art.... however we've been experiencing hosting problems over the past 2 months and are currently non-operational.

[Bittah Commander]

Ah... I was wondering what was going on over there. I hope C&C-Source 'll be back up soon...

[Ishmael]

Legally, we can't give you anything... even if we did still have any of that stuff, which we don't. That's all EA's property. Anything we generated while working for EA is theirs.

Suffice it to say that not a lot of the units are the same from what we originally planned (and that I can remember from memory at this point).

We had a stealth tank, mammoth tank and a rocket bike... that's about the extent of the similarities, although even they were different in our version.

[Luga]

Ah dammit. Now I feel kinda iffy about Ishmael saying that, now I want Westwood's true CnC3 even more

If you ever decide to go against the law, please make CnC3 on the black market

[Chrissyx]

Ishmael-PG, on Mar 19 2007, 10:19 PM, said:

Legally, we can't give you anything... even if we did still have any of that stuff, which we don't. That's all EA's property. Anything we generated while working for EA is theirs.

Suffice it to say that not a lot of the units are the same from what we originally planned (and that I can remember from memory at this point).

We had a stealth tank, mammoth tank and a rocket bike... that's about the extent of the similarities, although even they were different in our version.

No mechs?
Anyway, can you say more when the game is out?

[Gray__Fox]

I'ms sure there were chrissy, I did see a concept art of a Titan mk2 before on cncsource (too bad you can't get to it)

[NastyIonCannon]

Gray__Fox, on Mar 26 2007, 03:32 AM, said:

I'ms sure there were chrissy, I did see a concept art of a Titan mk2 before on cncsource (too bad you can't get to it)

It was fan art.

[Xyvik]

Actually, there is a legal loophole in this regard.

1: Intellectual property rights are limited to the proliferation of commerical products, whether by assisting, designing, or simply informing. As such:

2: A mod is not a commercial product, and as such only the most anal companies (such as Blizzard) try to shut them down. The fact of the matter, however, is that Blizzard does not have the legal right to interfere with something known as "Parody". They simply use their large business status and money means to threaten and bully those who try anything with their ideas. A mod can fall into the matter of Parody or simply that other thing which legal name I forget, but essentially is for preservation.

3: It's obvious that EA has abandonded your ideas and are simply using the name you created to promote their own products. As such, "Abandonment" laws come into effect, and as their final product has nothing outside of a trademarked name to do with your designs and ideas, you have free reign to do with them what you will, as long as you do not copy them and make a commercial product out of them. See point number 2 in regards to the legal status of mods.

4: It would be for the product by its own name, so they couldn't even pull the "unfair competition" laws that companies sometimes try to pull when a mod is made for a game that they do not own.

So actually, you would be completely free of legal repercussions if you assisted the making of a mod for CNC3 that gave the REAL cnc3 to the people.

This post has been edited by Xyvik: 28 March 2007 - 04:56 PM

[Hiromoon]

And then you can watch how fast your heads spin afterwards....

Quote

The copyright might have been abandoned. This is pretty rare.
Abandonment requires that the copyright holder intend to abandon the copyright, and generally requires an unambiguous statement or overt act on the part of the copyright holder that indicates his or her intent to dedicate the work to the public domain. National Comics Pub. v. Fawcett Pub., 191 F.2d 594,598 (2d Cir., 1951). A statement that anyone who wishes to may reproduce, rerform, or display the work without restrictions might be sufficient. Simply posting it on a computer network is not abandonment.

This post has been edited by Hiromoon: 28 March 2007 - 07:49 PM

[Xyvik]

However, if you paid even an ounce of attention to the rest of my post, and if you had a little bit more legal knowledge, you'd realize that none of it applies anyway since it won't be for a commercial product, it will be a non-profit modification for the commercial product that already has the copyright label affixed to it. Also, publication copyright abandonment follows different rules than electronic media copyright abandonment.

EA could never prove where the source came from anyway. For all they know, it was simply a fan who got lucky, or who simply had more imagination than they did. Under no circumstances would any legal action whatsoever be warrented, and neither would it ever hold up for a minute in a court of law. What would they sue anybody for? Copyright infringement? It's a mod, and it's a mod for the very game that bears the copyright. Not even a junior judge would let the case ever get to court.

Now, if the mod was for EaW/UaW, then EA might, might have a case. No modification has ever been shut down in a court of law. Game companies simply used their clout and their money to bully them into shutting down, but none have ever actually made it to court. If they did, things might be different. It would depend a lot on the judge, the lawyers, and the state where the case was held. But it might just hold up at that.

But a mod for CNC3? If anything, it would help EA make more money, and since its for their own game, their ideas are being used for their property, so there is nothing legally wrong about it. Like I said, it's a loophole, and it would hold up to the most rigorous legal attacks made.

This post has been edited by Xyvik: 29 March 2007 - 05:02 PM

[Hiromoon]

Still seems incredibly shadey. Especially if you're bandering about "real" C&C 3.

Though, they could just pull your posts and build a case from there...

[Rico]

First off I'm in Australia.
Also, as has been stated, EA wouldnt be able to sue anyone for a non-commercial product, especially since alot of the concepts were already on cnc-source. And the info that I'm asking for isnt exactly copyrighted since EA didnt use it. And to top it all off im putting it into C&C3 anyway, so there would be no legal case against anyone about the mod since I'm mearly adding in material that already 'belongs' in C&C3

And the mod is called Command & Conquer 3: Tiberian Twilight (however some have asked me to rename it Incursion, Currently I'm staying with Twilight because it keeps with C&C's names, Tiberian Dawn, Tiberian Sun & Tiberian Twilight, all times of the day that represent the part of the storyline (thats how I always thought of it )

As for the stuff on CnC-source, could you send me it on MSN by any chance Might Bob?

Ishmael would you be able to send me a list in PM of the units you can remember that were being planned and any other details please? As for legal things, the info your saying now is just fictional, it's not being used by EA and its no different then if i made up my own list out of my head (being as logical as possible ofcouse )

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Btw, Its obvious that EA has shot Westwood's story in the foot, there are so many discreminencies that its almost a whole new universe, TS has obviously been cut out and currently it looks like C&C 1.5. Can you shed some light as to your story that you remember (its just fan stories, nothing official ) And I already accept the usual disclaimer that what you say isnt the official storyline etc.

This post has been edited by Rico: 31 March 2007 - 11:30 AM

[Hiromoon]

Quote

And the info that I'm asking for isnt exactly copyrighted since EA didnt use it.

Didn't use it doesn't mean it's not Copyrighted, Rico.


And cnc-source is back up and running. You'll find the concept art you're looking for under Tiberium Wars.

This post has been edited by Hiromoon: 31 March 2007 - 12:25 PM

[Rico]

Hiromoon, on Apr 1 2007, 03:18 AM, said:

Didn't use it doesn't mean it's not Copyrighted, Rico.
And cnc-source is back up and running. You'll find the concept art you're looking for under Tiberium Wars.

A unit list isnt copy righted, its just words. It's only copyrighted if I was to get an EA model and use it .

Its more like Fan Fiction, so anything thats said can simply be put under the category of Fan Fiction, EA cant do anything about that .

As for the concept pics, thanks i just found them under C&C Continuum. Its interesting to see the GDI power plant looks the same as it does it TW, i guess EA kept that idea

EDIT: The gallery is missing alot of pics, i remember pages of it and in there i only see 2 pages . Hell I have pics on my HDD that isnt there

EDIT 2: Scrap that, I found more under TW like you said , looks like the pics have been broken apart into 2 sections

This post has been edited by Rico: 01 April 2007 - 07:38 AM

[Hiromoon]

Quote

A unit list isnt copy righted, its just words. It's only copyrighted if I was to get an EA model and use it.

Umm... No.

And you're welcome.

[Rico]

Did i forget to say thanks, oops sorry

[Mighty BOB!]

We're switching to a dedicated server today so expect some downtime @ Source. I'll check the galleries when it is back up for stuff that isn't in them.