[Phlakaton-PG]

Bush yet again carefully places troops and families as "backdrops" so he can prove he is a troop supporter. The decider. The John Wayne of the world. If I had eaten soup today I'd you know what in it. Fact is... people voted in new leadership to keep this man in check and when he doesnt get his way he turns into a bully and a crybaby.

http://www.c-span.org/

Play the first video with his reaction to the congress.


I heard from William Odom this week about how to deal with the Middle East mess. Go here http://charlierose.com/ and play the March 20th interview with William Odom. This man truely understands what is going on and how to deal with it. Experienced wisdom at work... nobody will listen to someone who has some balls and has the know-how to approach fixing this dilemma in a serious way. Notice he also says military and political strategies are basically the same thing... one part simply has weapons... I've been saying that for years and it's nice to hear someone concur.

My wife's dad worked in South East Asia and the Middle East as a Special Forces Operator from '67 - '88 as well as with CIA and Bush Sr. in the 70s and he says Odom knows what he's talking about.

History can teach us plenty... Bush doesnt seem to think so.

[SirNuke]

Direct interview link, start at 15:40 for the William Odom interview (there is also a short preview with Odom at ~45 seconds.) The rest of video is interesting if you have to time to watch it.

[Klarin]

An excellent point there. The pen is, indeed, mightier than the sword.

Klarin

[darth_yannick]

You guys should have made Al Gore president

[Klarin]

Well, I believe we did - sort of. The final recount showed that Gore won Florida by 4 votes - and that's ignoring the assorted issues of election fraud (barring large numbers of African-Americans from voting because their names resembled those of convicted felons, for example). Both of the elections that Bush has "won" raised significant questions of election fraud, which have yet to be resolved.

Klarin

[Phlakaton-PG]

Klarin, on Mar 24 2007, 03:53 PM, said:

Well, I believe we did - sort of. The final recount showed that Gore won Florida by 4 votes - and that's ignoring the assorted issues of election fraud (barring large numbers of African-Americans from voting because their names resembled those of convicted felons, for example). Both of the elections that Bush has "won" raised significant questions of election fraud, which have yet to be resolved.

Klarin

There was a great documentary on that topic on HBO last year. Cant recall the name of it. Evidence is painfully clear and the connections to Bush are even more damable. Gore wasnt someone I liked much but he has been a pioneer of sorts for a few things.

[darth_yannick]

Ah well, i kinda admire Gore's efforts for the environment. Of course there are people who say that the Earth can't be destroyed, and they are right. Earth is built to resist (I read somewhere) and that's true, but human kind isn't...
Anyway, I don't blame Bush for his war in Afghanistan and Iraq, because Islamic countries with such regimes ARE a threat, but I do blame him for how he is raging that war. Definately not really prepared and well as result there is civil war in Iraq.

[HissingNewt]

I don't think we could have prevented the Iraqi civil war even if we were prepared for that. The Sunni's and Shi'ites really seem to want to kill each other. Gore is doing good thing for the planet, but maybe he wouldn't of been a good president.

[darth_yannick]

I've got the impression that Saddam had more control over the country than the Americans do. It prolly sounds very controversial but I think that the hard and dictatorial regime of Saddam kinda held the conflict between Sunni's and Shittes within certain borders. And now with the democratic government, everything is going wrong. It seems that in some countries, it's better to have a dictator than a democratic government.
And well, unfortunately we will never know what would have happened if Al Gore was president. But that's life I guess

[HissingNewt]

Well, Saddam killed people who didn't like him so that he could keep power. If we do that, people would say it's terrible, but they'll say Saddam at least had control.

[popcorn2008]

hissingnewt13, on Mar 25 2007, 02:04 PM, said:

Well, Saddam killed people who didn't like him so that he could keep power. If we do that, people would say it's terrible, but they'll say Saddam at least had control.

Tis the difference between a first world and a third world nation. We should act civilized when dealing with politics. Going out to any old country we want and ousting a government shouldnt become an American practice.

If we continue we are no different than communist are, we're just spreading our ideals instead.

[Waraddict]

Frankly the whole problem with Iraq was over simplified, pro-war supporters actually justified the war with the simple excuse that 'Saddam was bad', right you are, but the whole situation in Iraq was so complicated you can't base decisions to invade on such black and white assertations. From the start the whole Iraqi issue was presented in a manner to the public that was no more suited for toddlers, the scary thing is, did they do this deliberately for some covert reason, or even worse, do it due to their ignorance of the iraqi situation thinking that the whole Iraqi situation WAS that simple? The fact that the US was poorly prepared for the aftermath of the invasion unsettlingly points to the second possibility, I mean how on earth could they think it would be that easy? Anyone spending 5 mins looking into the history of Iraq would conclude that the whole notion of Iraqi nationality is non-existant and that it was a country ready to blow once that asshole of a brain-tumour called Saddam was removed. Yet this horrible ignorance displayed by Bush is no where near the most disturbing fact, his ass was not roasted for being so utterly incompetent! In fact, the question still remains what light he will be viewed in the history books.

This post has been edited by Waraddict: 25 March 2007 - 02:39 PM

[darth_yannick]

I know Saddam killed a lot of people (that's why he was conviced to death), but if we look at the number of deaths since the American invasion, I guess in those 3(4?) years, more people have died than in whole Saddams reign. I am definately NOT pro Saddam but I think that some countries just aren't ready for the freedom that democracy offers.

[SlurpeeBoy]

hissingnewt13, on Mar 25 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

Well, Saddam killed people who didn't like him so that he could keep power. If we do that, people would say it's terrible,

No, people would say it's great, or else they die.

[(DoV) Tokakeke]

Saddam's authoritarianism kept people relatively safe compared to the situation now.

[Waraddict]

(DoV) Tokakeke, on Mar 25 2007, 08:57 PM, said:

Saddam's authoritarianism kept people relatively safe compared to the situation now.

Which reminds me of another thing which annoyed me about the Iraqi invasion, it was all treated that as long as the US and its Iraqi War allies did one better then that asshole it would be fine.

Of course it seems they may have done worse anyway, but that's what you get for not having higher goals.

[Loth Don]

The captive british soldiers don't help the situation now. I hate the anxiety that I have over this since we are certainly laying the ground work for another military conflict.

[Phlakaton-PG]

I want to know why Brits were in that channel in the first place. I dont know all the facts but sometimes its like someone getting all mad because they got mugged when they were in an alley at night.

Holding them is not a good thing on the part of Iran but you know they want to make this a big mess too.

[Waraddict]

Phlakaton-PG, on Mar 26 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

I want to know why Brits were in that channel in the first place. I dont know all the facts but sometimes its like someone getting all mad because they got mugged when they were in an alley at night.

Holding them is not a good thing on the part of Iran but you know they want to make this a big mess too.

As far as the story we're told goes, they were in waters which were disputed between Iraq and Iran, internationally the ocean territory is recognised as Iraqi.

[darth_yannick]

This is a bit off-topic, but I've read yesterday in the news that the Portugese people chose ex-dictator Antonio Oliveira Salazar as the greatest portugese of all times. Quite strange actually that they chose a dictator in stead of a "good" guy.