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#21 Rapier

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 02:38 PM

Lets get back on topic, shall we?  :p

Nontopic posts about Fosh's rocket supply and destroying EA headquarters deleted.
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#22 popcorn2008

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 04:36 PM

 Rapier, on Oct 15 2006, 03:38 PM, said:

Lets get back on topic, shall we?  :p
Yes let's  :D . Eventually im sure the story will leak.... eventually  :o lol.
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#23 HissingNewt

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 04:53 PM

They should anonymously leak it. Or maybe the story can get "stolen" from them after somebody "accidently" wrote it down.
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#24 Bittah Commander

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 07:56 PM

Lol, "My hand did it all by itself" :lol:
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#25 HissingNewt

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 09:49 PM

Exactly. Or "somebody", "forced" you to do it. :D
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#26 Juggernaut1985

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:02 AM

I remember asking mike if he could describe the story WW had in one word. I believe that word was: Awesome.

C&C3 can't live up to Westwood's vision.

#27 Torpid-PG

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:26 AM

I'm really not sure about the legality of talking about stuff like this, so I really can't say much.  I know that there was going to be a C&C3 before Westwood closed, but it's one of those projects that started and stopped a few times.  I know some mock-up screen shots got released a while back so it's likely that SOME story was outlined.  Having been a large part of the story for Firestorm, I know the direction the story was intended to go, but where EA takes it is anyone's guess.

I'm in the same boat as you guys - we all will just have to wait and see.  The Tiberium universe was a large part of my early career, so I am looking forward to seeing what they do with it.
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#28 Kelathin

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:30 AM

You doubt it already, but you haven't even seen it yet, I would wait. The thing that pisses me off and other people is, they're like. Oh EaW is a piece of turd from a donkey behind, yet they mod it and claim oh look what I did, I'm so special.

I never played rebellion, but I was sure hell sastified with the game. If you look at it without expectations the games can be pretty good. I hope that CnC 3 will be good, maybe it won't be the westwood vision, but it may be better. So before you doubt it, just wait.
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#29 Ishmael

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:28 PM

I could tell you all about where C&C was heading, how all the characters developed, and what eventually it led to.

...but I won't.  Not that I wouldn't like to, but it is EA's franchise and out of respect to them, they're the storytellers you need to listen to now.

You have to look at C&C like folklore in a way -- stuff gets changed as it is passed down from generation to generation.  The 'ol westwood guys had the story and we certainly had a direction for it, but there's new storytellers now and they're going to change it and evolve it.

Knowing nothing about where they're taking it now, who's to say which would be better?  I just hope they tell a good story amidst some solid RTS game play.  :)

#30 Mr. Pokey

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:51 PM

Argh!
I really would love to know the original direction that the story would have taken.
I'll still settle for what will come out. Well, i have no choice, but it should still be alright :)
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#31 Juggernaut1985

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:00 PM

I want to know what would have happened to the characters too.

#32 Mighty BOB!

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:02 PM

I want a book. >_>

Ya know those few scans of design docs from TS in the back of the Platinum manual?  I find those very intrigueing (spelling?) and I'd like to see more of that.


Wesforce said:

We are living in a post-common sense society.

Finger said:

Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.


#33 Gray__Fox

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:08 PM

 Torpid-PG, on Oct 16 2006, 10:26 AM, said:

I'm really not sure about the legality of talking about stuff like this, so I really can't say much. I know that there was going to be a C&C3 before Westwood closed, but it's one of those projects that started and stopped a few times. I know some mock-up screen shots got released a while back so it's likely that SOME story was outlined. Having been a large part of the story for Firestorm, I know the direction the story was intended to go, but where EA takes it is anyone's guess.

I'm in the same boat as you guys - we all will just have to wait and see. The Tiberium universe was a large part of my early career, so I am looking forward to seeing what they do with it.




ooh that must have been fun, Firestorm story was pretty great.
I hate to say it I had huge expectations for C+C3 (what is up with that!) but when EA started doing things and ignoring some set things in the Tiberium universe (blossom trees :( ) I have become highly disappointed in a lot of things they are doing... and personally hope it bombs. (but it won't it says "Tiberium"... and that brings hope that will soon be crushed after getting into it...)

I don't like a lot they do due to "things" I'm still waiting to play my The First Decade pack without crashes but that's looking grim... ah i remember when the old Westwood found out C&C wouldn't work on XP and they slapped a patch up on their site as soon as they had it fixed... support is the biggest plus and is what makes a good company great.

I remember hearing from Westwood that C&C (Tiberian universe) was supposed to be a 6 part game series can you at least say if that was true? :blush:
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#34 AwingSlash

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:03 PM

Maybe if we ever get to meet the Petroglyph guys in real life we can buy them a few drinks and maybe then they'll spill the beans...    ^_^

#35 Bittah Commander

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 07:09 PM

 Gray__Fox, on Oct 16 2006, 09:08 PM, said:

ooh that must have been fun, Firestorm story was pretty great.
I hate to say it I had huge expectations for C+C3 (what is up with that!) but when EA started doing things and ignoring some set things in the Tiberium universe (blossom trees :( ) I have become highly disappointed in a lot of things they are doing... and personally hope it bombs. (but it won't it says "Tiberium"... and that brings hope that will soon be crushed after getting into it...)

I don't like a lot they do due to "things" I'm still waiting to play my The First Decade pack without crashes but that's looking grim... ah i remember when the old Westwood found out C&C wouldn't work on XP and they slapped a patch up on their site as soon as they had it fixed... support is the biggest plus and is what makes a good company great.

I remember hearing from Westwood that C&C (Tiberian universe) was supposed to be a 6 part game series can you at least say if that was true? :blush:
I agree, even though I did't have the highest expectations for C&C3. When C&C3 was first announced, quite alot of people already said it was going to suck (because of their experience with C&C Generals and for some also their experience with RA2), but I thought I'd give it a chanse... I registered at EA's forums so I'd hear every bit of news as soon as possible. Almost every bit of news until now has been disappointing however; even the name of the game sounds disappointing.

"Tiberium Wars"... Most inovative name I've ever heard :glare:
The name is nothing like the names of the previous C&C's (which it should've been, seeming it's supposed to be a sequal to them) and it also sounds more like a collection of than a game on its own. "Tiberium Wars" doesn't say anything about C&C specificly, every other C&C could've been called that, while it's supposed to describe the game itself. So how does "Tiberium Wars" describe the third tiberium war? It doesn't.
Because of the great creativity that was behind this name, I got very high expectations about EA's creativity with the rest of the game... Not <_<

The second and biggest disappointment was the tiberium... The game was now called "Tiberium Wars" and there actually isn't even real tiberium in the game. All there was now some cheesy green crystal, of which the only simmilarities to the tiberium was that it's green, part of it is a crystal (actually it's entirily a crystal instead of only a part of it, like the case is withthe tiberium), it spreads and players can harvest it for money. Yeah, that does sounds like alot, but that's nothing compaired what actually tiberium is;
it (the pod) grows like a plant (via roots),
it absorbs minerals from the soil (simmillar to how a plant absorbs water to grow) and stores thease in a crystal (from which the minerals can be extracted when it's harvested and used to produce weaponary and warmachines; it isn't used to buy anything, but everything is build with it)
and it releaseses gasses (I've never heard of it being readioactive anywhere in any of the C&C's) which can mutate infantry into a visceroid (the "blossom" from the blossom tree is what mutates humans into "shiners"), mutates certain trees into blossom trees and mutates other plants into another kind of mutated plantlife.
The whole C&C story has evolved around it and now EA just changes the tiberium into something completely different. The Tiberium never needed to be changed, so I really don't understand why EA changed it in the first place; if they wouldn't have changed it, none would've complained about it at all. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The third disappointment is that all technology in the game is going backwards... which is only because the people at EA prefer tanks over... prettymuch anything. Prettymuch everything from TS is replaced by something less advanced;
the Titan (replaced by the Predator),
the Wolverine (Replaced by the Pitbull and the Zone trooper; the Pitbull doesn't even belong in GDI's army and the zone trooper might be a multipurpose unit, but it isn't more powerful as it has only 1 (and smaller) weapon, where the Wolverine has 2 (and bigger) weapons)),
the Tick Tank (replaced by the Scorpion tank, which has less functionality than the Tick Tank),
The Attack Cycle (replaced by another version without a closed roof)...

Judging from what EA wrote ("We're making a game we want to play") this is what appears to be their state of mind: "(...) continuity, we want tanks, period." It was written literally they prefered tank battles and because of this they're scrapping most mech units (only left one for GDI and even gave one to Nod), they're scapping hover units and they're scrapping subteranean units - all with very poor excuses.

Also when it was announced APOC was kidnapped, I started to doubt weather they even take the community serious. Do they even care about the community?
Verdu wrote what they liked and preferred and as it appears that's the only thing that matters; instead of comprimising their preferences, they're comprimising continuity.
Verdu wrote they prefer tanks... -Most non-tank units where scrapped
Verdu wrote they prefered TD over TS... C&C3 was based alot more on TD while it's supposed to be a sequal to TS.

When I think about it, they really don't seem to care about anyone or anything that already been established. Why'd they even base their RTS on C&C? I think the only reason was to increase the ammounth of sales... Actually, I know so; just look at "C&C" Generals. They could've made their own RTS, but no, they just had to call it a C&C (while it obviously is even less a C&C than RA2 is); if it doesn't fit in the C&C story, it isn't a C&C.

EA (Westwood Pacific) started tearing the C&C story appeart when they made RA2. It was the first "C&C" Westwood Pacific made and I what was going on around it, I don't know... They might've simply not known (even though it's obvious enough if you've played RA and TD) that RA is TD's prequal, so I'm not sure if I can blame them about that. However, because of this I highly doubt weather EA 'll leave the story the way it's "supposed" to be. By the way it's supposed to be I mean that if the story was already written down and EA owns it, they should follow it and if not, the story they make up should make perfect sence if you compair it with RA's, TD's and TS's story (which like I just said wasn't the case with RA2, which was made by most of the staff that's now also working on C&C3).

The first thing I heard about the C&C3 story was that the Philidelphia was shot down with a nuklear missile. This is seems very unlikely to me. Nod had to go through alot of trouble to be able to take out the Philidelphia in the Nod mission in TS and in the GDI campaign you prevent Nod from launching the ICBM missiles which where supposed to take out the Philidelphia.
After this event GDI would've certainly learned from it and make sure the philidelphia is defended against missiles. GDI has highly advanced sensors, so saying GDI didn't detect the nuklear missile doesn't make sence (the moment Nod launches a cluster missile you're already notified for instance).
There are countless ways to stop a missile; especially a huge and easy to detect nuklear missile. GDI could just fly a dropship into it, GDI could fire droppods at it, GDI could simply take it out with their Ion Cannon and the Philidelphia would most likely have defences attached to it to take it out. I really don't think GDI is ignorant to just ignore the attempt of Nod to take out the Philidelphia and wouldn't make sure the chanse of anyone ever succeeding to do this is as small as possible.
So once again, it's very unlikely Nod took out the philidelphia with a nuklear missile.
A possibility on how Kane would be able to take out the Philidelphia is with another scrinship. He build one at the end of the first tiberian war (though Vega crashed it in TS), so he should be able to build another one and use it to take out the philidelphia (which is what the first scrinship might've been intended for in the first place).

Anyway, the story is already flawed and alot of things make me doubt this story is going to be as good as what the original story was intended to be (or is, if it's already written down).
There are alot of mysteries in RA, TD and TS of about which we might never get the true answer (the answer that applied in RA, TD and TS that is)... The truth about Kane for instance (how he hadn't agaed from RA to TD and from TD to TS and how he really survived the Ion Cannon blast), what the Scrin really is, their intentions, their connections to tiberium and alot of other things.

I sure hope we'll get to know the answers to the mysteries of the original story and the original conclusion to it one day...
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#36 paws1111

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 07:41 PM

 Bittah Commander, on Oct 17 2006, 12:09 AM, said:

EA (Westwood Pacific) started tearing the C&C story appeart when they made RA2. It was the first "C&C" Westwood Pacific made and I what was going on around it, I don't know... They might've simply not known (even though it's obvious enough if you've played RA and TD) that RA is TD's prequal, so I'm not sure if I can blame them about that
Actuly im pritty shure your wrong about that

Yes, red alert is the prequal to td but it doubles as the prequal to ra2

when soviets win we hear about nod ....blah blah blah of course we can figure out its kane....
but looking at the allies win movie we see another strange balld guy that resembles yuri quite a bit..... and acts like him to also you can argue the way he talks to the allied infantry that he mind controled them to go away.

Although you can say it dosint look like yuri i mean  ra2 is a game away and who knows when they finished the final movie the movie production of ra2 is a few years off so they dint have the actors final yet so its quite likely that the man in the allies victory movie is indead yuri

also to note there would be no true reson to introduceing this characted if he wasint in a sequal of soem sort .... all he does is kill stalen.... what does that acomplish? NOTHING no mater what hapens stalen is a dead man....weather he wins loses.... captured by allies.... all yuri wanted was to kill him him self even if he dint kill him a leader would have replaced stalen regardless......  by the evidence in my eyes it is indead yuri being introduced

#37 Bittah Commander

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 07:56 PM

I can assure you I'm not wrong about that. There was no Yuri in RA1, he was completely made up in RA2.
The videos from when you play the soviet campaign only show clues from what's going on over there, however only the allied campaign is significant.
The fact that you only see Kane during the Soviet campaign doesn't mean he isn't there during the allied campaign and it also doesn't mean his plans are any different.

GDI also wouldn't have been able to exist if the soviet ending was followed and for Nod it doesn't matter... All Kane needed was chaos, so Nod could rise from the ashes.
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#38 paws1111

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:10 PM

First of all wikipeadea source (this seems to be the widly except ed story line)

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A flawed and much debated theory to resolve the apparent timeline error is to consider Red Alert as the genesis of two parallel stories. If the Soviet campaign is played in Red Alert, Russia emerges as the dominant power and Kane and the Brotherhood of Nod take control of this new empire. On the other hand, if the Allied campaign is played in Red Alert, the Allies emerge victorious and the timeline leads into Red Alert 2. It should be noted, however, that this theory directly contradicts information given by the Tiberian Dawn manual, which states that Nod is an African group and makes no mention of Russia whatsoever. Also, as mentioned above, during the Allied campaign in Greece, a newscast refers to the formation of an "Initiative of Global Defense" to combat Soviet militarism in any form, a clear reference to the military alliance of the same name in Tiberian Dawn. Another flaw is that if the allies were defeated they would never have been able to set up the GDI.

Another theory is that the GDI hadn't been properly set up until after the Allies had defeated the Russians in both Red Alert (in the 1950s) and Red Alert 2 (in the early 1970s). Tiberium then crashed to Earth in the 1990s and Kane emerged from the wastes of Africa with his third-world army. However, when considered this theory does not explain the seeming loss of technology between Red Alert 2 and Tiberian Dawn. The story lines were apparently further complicated by the writing of Red Alert 2 which introduced characters such as Yuri and this new villain's attempts to conquer the world, thwarted by a pact between the Soviets and the Allies.

Former Westwood employees have claimed that they were working on a timeline which seamlessly linked the entire series together
ok now more into reponce to ur post :D
ALso id like to note that the wikapeda does state there are flaws to the thery so........yea...(in a way ur right :D cheers! ).. but this is still what i belive :D so this will probly be my final post in this topic

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GDI also wouldn't have been able to exist if the soviet ending was followed and for Nod it doesn't matter... All Kane needed was chaos, so Nod could rise from the ashes.
EXATLY! if allies win they cancle the chaos  kane needed. Kane would suffer 2 things from allies winning
first: hes a high official on the soviet side normaly they are cought and eather kild or put in jail for a long time
2: kane has NO POWEr if the allies win even if he excaped he has nothing can cant become more than any old terrorist organization (although i guse its still posible)

also many players have skepulatate (bad sp error there :p) that once kane beat the allies he now posseses there technology (ie chronosphere) some people think kane destroys all but one cronosphere and keeps it to hims self.
some people stat this is how kane has lived for the long period of time ontop of him being blasted by an ion cannon even in a movie! (i havent seen this one in TD but thats what i heard)

its a far out theary but kinda fits..... and does give this quote much more meaning "He who controls the past controles the future. He who controls the futrure controls the past"(and by allies winning this isnt as posible)

but.... im done on the subject now ...... for a good long while :D

your turn to rip my post apart :D

#39 Bittah Commander

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:24 PM

Well, this threat isn't about which ending Tiberian Dawn follows, it has already been stated numerous of times that it follows the allied ending and I'm sure even former westwood staff members could confirm this.

Anyway, to respond to your post... Kane doesn't need the soviets; Nod already existed, though nobody knew about them. Kane would use the chaos caused by the war to reveal Nod and gain everyones trust.

If what you said was true, most of Nod's units would have a russian accent in TD, which isn't the case. Nod also didn't have russia under their control in TD, so this isn't possible anyhow.


Let's please get back on topic now.
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#40 Ishmael

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 01:16 PM

 Bittah Commander, on Oct 16 2006, 06:24 PM, said:

Well, this threat isn't about which ending Tiberian Dawn follows, it has already been stated numerous of times that it follows the allied ending and I'm sure even former westwood staff members could confirm this.
Allied / GDI endings were always followed as the Canon for the C&C games previously.  The only exception here was Firestorm, which both endings are relevant and actually happen, since we had designed them to co-exist going into the future.

And yes, we were going to explain how RA2 happened in C&C3...




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